Are these bugs? - Guild Wars Forums

kincaid · Dec 04, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Hello,

I tried to post Arenanet directly, but I got only a thorough automated answer from a bot, who informed me to write to the fan forums. Guildwarsguru was the first on the list, that's why I decided to place a message here. Hopefully, somehow, it would be read by the Arenanet staff. Beneath, I placed few issues I claim to be the "bugs", but I may be wrong about it.
Well, check for Yourself and give me You comments. They're most welcome.

1) Gate Seals (Tyria)
Although the seals are not a big challenge to destroy, although, in my mind, they shoyld follow the rules and possibilities of the skills (as they also use them). The issue is, that I tested it several times, and the "bug" was visible in every of them.
During normal play with characters in the game, the skill may be completed (achieved) when a propper distance is saved - so it means, that the oponent must be in range for the skill to hit the target. But - the oponent must follow the target to get the range.
When approaching the seal, normally it takes one of the players as the target (when approaching alone, You become target, which is normal situation). Then, the seal uses a skill (for example and most common - air skill - lightning). But it takes of course some time to cast it. SEALS don't move. But if a skill is being casted, You can try to run away. BUT NO MATTER if You use ranger/warrior running skills or You get out of the skill range, it always hits You. No matter how far from the seal You are.

2. The refreshes/spawns
This small issue is visible mostly, when You play with computer players (hench, heroes). But also very very common, that it happens, when minnions/golems are casted and are following You/or necro player from the team. It happens very oftenly, that they're left behind and try to keep up with You. If the minnion/golem/hench/hero steps on the enviromental blocker (rock, wood, hill, etc.) You are spawned BACK to the last character of Your team - no matter if this is hench/hero or even minnion/golem. And as I tell You, this happens oftenly. And breaks the fluency of the play.

3. Connection lost
IT also happens oftenly - during lately nightfall announcement and availability, that client (player like me) looses connection when entering a city location. It is a huge problem, as for example, of You travel far (aka exploring the unknown locations), the only option to save Your progress is to enter a city area. Then the connection errors makes mad. And this situation happens only, when trying to enter city location "on foot". If You use map travel (to known places) - there is no problem at all.

4. The lost storyline
This one happens especially in Nightfall quests. And I'm definitely not talking about occasional quests, which You can gather from characters outside the cities/outposts - in the explorable areas.
It happened to me at least once, that I had clear quests list, tried to get any from different characters in the locations (explored all of them) and I was astonished in a big way. It looked to me that I'm frozen in the middle of the game and couldn't move further. The map didn't show anything. I was unable to get any quest, also, the quest list was abolutely blank. Desperation.
Luckily, after many, many suggestions from my colleagues, I entered explorable area far away in the most unpredictable place, I found (in my case - Master of Whispers), who movd the storyline back to the correct queue. But there is more to say.
Let's suppose, that the quest is to escort a character to another character (ex. Master of Whispers) at the end of the area. You escort the character, get the reward, then - (in this ex. Master of Whispers) wants to give You quest, which would forward the storyline. But, locally, the power is down (computer goes off). Then, after the logon - the first quest is completed, Master of Whispers (in our example) may not spawn again, and the next quest cannot be taken due to the situation, that the power was down, and the subject will not spawn again.
There SHOULD be sort of solution for this kind of situations. Inside the city, there should be other possibilities to get the correct quest!

"Bugs" 2 and 3 I've described seems to me like problems in the "servers" code area. So I guess, the problem lies somewhere there.

Carth` · Dec 04, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

#1 is just how the game works. It doesn't matter that the tower doesn't move, if you cast a spell on someone you have to stop moving to cast it. The longer the spell takes to cast, the further the target of the spell can get away, but it will still hit them. It wouldn't be fair if you see someone casting a spell on you, so move out of spell range and the spell fails.

#2 and #3 sound like lag.

Savio · Dec 04, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

The Sardelac Sanitarium forum is for suggestions, not bugs. Bugs belong in the bug report thread. Questions belong in the Q&A forum.

1. You only have to be in range when you start casting the skill. After that, the target can run away as far as it wants and it'll still get hit.

2. Actually, you're the one who's not moving. Because of lag, it seems like you're moving but you're actually standing still, hence the NPCs still standing there. Eventually your computer syncs up with the server and shows your actual location. This tends to happen when you have lag and you get caught on something, whether it be the environment or an enemy.

3. Sounds like either you were travelling around during an update or else you have a bad connection.

4. You only have to get three primary quests out in explorable areas - Secrets in the Shadow/For a Price (you pick one of the two), To Kill a Demon (if you picked Secrets), and No Me, no Kormir (if you picked Price). I don't see how it's a problem, since after you finish a primary quest you either pick up another primary quest in the same area or do a mission. But it seems a lot of people haven't exactly picked up on how that works.

kincaid · Dec 05, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

#1 is just how the game works. It doesn't matter that the tower doesn't move, if you cast a spell on someone you have to stop moving to cast it. The longer the spell takes to cast, the further the target of the spell can get away, but it will still hit them. It wouldn't be fair if you see someone casting a spell on you, so move out of spell range and the spell fails.

#2 and #3 sound like lag.

Sorry for the wrong thema subject, will try to put more attention where do I write messages.

Carth` - this is very unfair. Let's look at the example - meteor shower or fire storm. You run to get the range to cast it, then You start casting it. The enemy flees. The shower/storm flows out from the sky, but ID DOES NOT start at the place enemy is, but on the place, where You started to cast it.
Also, let's look at fireball. Situation: Elementalist agains Ranger. Elementalist (You) starts casting fireball, while Ranger (enemy) corresponds to the situation, uses Dodge or Escape (E) and flees far away. Result? Elementalist does not hit, occasionally, the fireball squashes on the screen near the enemy, but from the enemy screen (tested in pvp) - it squashes far from the target.

This is what I call inconvenience.

Savio · Dec 05, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kincaid

You run to get the range to cast it, then You start casting it. The enemy flees. The shower/storm flows out from the sky, but ID DOES NOT start at the place enemy is, but on the place, where You started to cast it.

No, it hits where the enemy is standing when you finished casting it. They're projectile spells, they take time to get from you to the enemy. In that time, if the enemy moves far enough then it misses.

Ether Seals don't use projectile attacks. Their skills - Mind Shock, Chain Lightning, Enervating Charge - are direct spells. They don't fire projectiles at all; their effect is instantaneous.

Toutatis · Dec 05, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

In the case of your elementalist vs ranger and the fireball example, that's the same rules used for any projectile in the game. Limited range and dodgeable. To change that would mean changing every projectile based attack in the game. Sure it's an inconvenience at times if the target manages to get out of range while the projectile is in flight, but that's just Newtonian physics for you.

Antheus · Dec 05, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by kincaid

Sorry for the wrong thema subject, will try to put more attention where do I write messages.

Carth` - this is very unfair. Let's look at the example - meteor shower or fire storm. You run to get the range to cast it, then You start casting it. The enemy flees. The shower/storm flows out from the sky, but ID DOES NOT start at the place enemy is, but on the place, where You started to cast it.
Also, let's look at fireball. Situation: Elementalist agains Ranger. Elementalist (You) starts casting fireball, while Ranger (enemy) corresponds to the situation, uses Dodge or Escape (E) and flees far away. Result? Elementalist does not hit, occasionally, the fireball squashes on the screen near the enemy, but from the enemy screen (tested in pvp) - it squashes far from the target.

This is what I call inconvenience.

It's how skills work, deal with it

.

There are three types of caster range attacks.

First fall under the projectile. Fireball, flare, lightning orb, .... You launch a projectile which flies with limited speed towards the target. The destination is determined by foe's location at time of cast completion. If target moves, it dodges.

The second is "at target foe's location". Meteor storm, Fire Storm, Invoke Lightning, Immolate, Earthquake, ... That means that the skill is invoked at the location where foe is when you complete the cast, or on the foe themself. Where they are at that point is irrelevant. The only condition is, that when you start casting, the target is in your range.

Last are untergeted skills that are invoked around you. Fire burst for example.

This isn't inconvenient, it's strategic. All skills that are invoked at target's location require positioning, tactics and planning to use effectively. Since target can move out of their range as soon as they are cast, they have situational use. The skills that are invoked on a foe (immolate) do not require line of sight, and cannot be evaded. That makes them very powerful.

If you change this logic, then monks will also get the ability to miss with heals, since they'll heal a spot where the ally has moved away. Same goes for hexes, you would be able to dodge them.

There's a reason why things are like that, and this was stated from the start. The lock-on machanics are present to not handicap players with different network latency. Adding the dodge aspect implies bunny hopping and other techniques that allow players with low latency to become immune to all attacks, and players with high latency to have no chance to evade anymore.

This is the core of entire GW combat system, and also the reason why there's a difference between melee attacks, projectile attacks and targeted attacks.

kincaid · Dec 05, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

It's how skills work, deal with it

.

There are three types of caster range attacks.

First fall under the projectile. Fireball, flare, lightning orb, .... You launch a projectile which flies with limited speed towards the target. The destination is determined by foe's location at time of cast completion. If target moves, it dodges.

The second is "at target foe's location". Meteor storm, Fire Storm, Invoke Lightning, Immolate, Earthquake, ... That means that the skill is invoked at the location where foe is when you complete the cast, or on the foe themself. Where they are at that point is irrelevant. The only condition is, that when you start casting, the target is in your range.

Last are untergeted skills that are invoked around you. Fire burst for example.

This isn't inconvenient, it's strategic. All skills that are invoked at target's location require positioning, tactics and planning to use effectively. Since target can move out of their range as soon as they are cast, they have situational use. The skills that are invoked on a foe (immolate) do not require line of sight, and cannot be evaded. That makes them very powerful.

If you change this logic, then monks will also get the ability to miss with heals, since they'll heal a spot where the ally has moved away. Same goes for hexes, you would be able to dodge them.

There's a reason why things are like that, and this was stated from the start. The lock-on machanics are present to not handicap players with different network latency. Adding the dodge aspect implies bunny hopping and other techniques that allow players with low latency to become immune to all attacks, and players with high latency to have no chance to evade anymore.

This is the core of entire GW combat system, and also the reason why there's a difference between melee attacks, projectile attacks and targeted attacks.

Ok, thank You for the answer, but tell me then, what would happen if:
I play Ranger. Gotta Dodge and Escape, using instantly.
Then, I come near (radar range) enemy, who uses described by You at "target foe's location" skills. IT starts casting, but as it cannot move during the casting, I run away very fast, so in my mind, I should be even able to make a "double radar range" from the target. Generally it disappears out of the sight.
Will it hit me then? Sounds like Sidewinder missles

Dec 04, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46	#1
kincaid Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pabianice, POLAND Guild: AIE Profession: D/	Are these bugs? Hello, I tried to post Arenanet directly, but I got only a thorough automated answer from a bot, who informed me to write to the fan forums. Guildwarsguru was the first on the list, that's why I decided to place a message here. Hopefully, somehow, it would be read by the Arenanet staff. Beneath, I placed few issues I claim to be the "bugs", but I may be wrong about it. Well, check for Yourself and give me You comments. They're most welcome. 1) Gate Seals (Tyria) Although the seals are not a big challenge to destroy, although, in my mind, they shoyld follow the rules and possibilities of the skills (as they also use them). The issue is, that I tested it several times, and the "bug" was visible in every of them. During normal play with characters in the game, the skill may be completed (achieved) when a propper distance is saved - so it means, that the oponent must be in range for the skill to hit the target. But - the oponent must follow the target to get the range. When approaching the seal, normally it takes one of the players as the target (when approaching alone, You become target, which is normal situation). Then, the seal uses a skill (for example and most common - air skill - lightning). But it takes of course some time to cast it. SEALS don't move. But if a skill is being casted, You can try to run away. BUT NO MATTER if You use ranger/warrior running skills or You get out of the skill range, it always hits You. No matter how far from the seal You are. 2. The refreshes/spawns This small issue is visible mostly, when You play with computer players (hench, heroes). But also very very common, that it happens, when minnions/golems are casted and are following You/or necro player from the team. It happens very oftenly, that they're left behind and try to keep up with You. If the minnion/golem/hench/hero steps on the enviromental blocker (rock, wood, hill, etc.) You are spawned BACK to the last character of Your team - no matter if this is hench/hero or even minnion/golem. And as I tell You, this happens oftenly. And breaks the fluency of the play. 3. Connection lost IT also happens oftenly - during lately nightfall announcement and availability, that client (player like me) looses connection when entering a city location. It is a huge problem, as for example, of You travel far (aka exploring the unknown locations), the only option to save Your progress is to enter a city area. Then the connection errors makes mad. And this situation happens only, when trying to enter city location "on foot". If You use map travel (to known places) - there is no problem at all. 4. The lost storyline This one happens especially in Nightfall quests. And I'm definitely not talking about occasional quests, which You can gather from characters outside the cities/outposts - in the explorable areas. It happened to me at least once, that I had clear quests list, tried to get any from different characters in the locations (explored all of them) and I was astonished in a big way. It looked to me that I'm frozen in the middle of the game and couldn't move further. The map didn't show anything. I was unable to get any quest, also, the quest list was abolutely blank. Desperation. Luckily, after many, many suggestions from my colleagues, I entered explorable area far away in the most unpredictable place, I found (in my case - Master of Whispers), who movd the storyline back to the correct queue. But there is more to say. Let's suppose, that the quest is to escort a character to another character (ex. Master of Whispers) at the end of the area. You escort the character, get the reward, then - (in this ex. Master of Whispers) wants to give You quest, which would forward the storyline. But, locally, the power is down (computer goes off). Then, after the logon - the first quest is completed, Master of Whispers (in our example) may not spawn again, and the next quest cannot be taken due to the situation, that the power was down, and the subject will not spawn again. There SHOULD be sort of solution for this kind of situations. Inside the city, there should be other possibilities to get the correct quest! "Bugs" 2 and 3 I've described seems to me like problems in the "servers" code area. So I guess, the problem lies somewhere there.

Dec 04, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03	#2
Carth` Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2006	#1 is just how the game works. It doesn't matter that the tower doesn't move, if you cast a spell on someone you have to stop moving to cast it. The longer the spell takes to cast, the further the target of the spell can get away, but it will still hit them. It wouldn't be fair if you see someone casting a spell on you, so move out of spell range and the spell fails. #2 and #3 sound like lag.

Dec 04, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17	#3
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	The Sardelac Sanitarium forum is for suggestions, not bugs. Bugs belong in the bug report thread. Questions belong in the Q&A forum. 1. You only have to be in range when you start casting the skill. After that, the target can run away as far as it wants and it'll still get hit. 2. Actually, you're the one who's not moving. Because of lag, it seems like you're moving but you're actually standing still, hence the NPCs still standing there. Eventually your computer syncs up with the server and shows your actual location. This tends to happen when you have lag and you get caught on something, whether it be the environment or an enemy. 3. Sounds like either you were travelling around during an update or else you have a bad connection. 4. You only have to get three primary quests out in explorable areas - Secrets in the Shadow/For a Price (you pick one of the two), To Kill a Demon (if you picked Secrets), and No Me, no Kormir (if you picked Price). I don't see how it's a problem, since after you finish a primary quest you either pick up another primary quest in the same area or do a mission. But it seems a lot of people haven't exactly picked up on how that works. __________________ People are stupid.

Dec 05, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51	#6
Toutatis Walking Wiki Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Isle of Medication Guild: Visitors from Aranna [VFA] Profession: Me/E	In the case of your elementalist vs ranger and the fireball example, that's the same rules used for any projectile in the game. Limited range and dodgeable. To change that would mean changing every projectile based attack in the game. Sure it's an inconvenience at times if the target manages to get out of range while the projectile is in flight, but that's just Newtonian physics for you.